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IMPORTANT: Basing Rework

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RetributionRP

Overview of changes coming

This post will be going over new rework coming to basing. I wanted to make this post so you guys aren't going to be blindsided by these changes because every person is going to be affected by the upcoming rule/gameplay changes. These overhauls have been needed for a while so we will be testing new systems to see what works best.

 


BASING

@Shogun4122  @Byte @DaveThe2nd @Goobermensch and I have taken the time to sit down and find the core issues that hinder basing. I want you guys to understand that we have always known there are a lot of problems with basing but the direction every discussion has taken never got to any sources of the problems.

Rule issues

  • The rules are too long: Any set of rules that take longer than 3 reads to understand are extremely off-putting to most players especially new ones trying to solve a pans labyrinth of rules. This is caused from overtime patches of basing issues that result in an extremely long disorganized rule set.
  • The rules are too confusing: No, we have not added any new rules. No, staff aren't purposefully giving you different information. What is actually happening is that it is nearly impossible for regular players to know all of the basing rules and it is way too easy to accidentally break them. It is frustrating getting in trouble for something you genuinely didn't mean to do. The key to fixing this isn't to add more detail to the rules for it will just make the motd even longer than before. Which in turn will ironically make it harder for new players to remember.
  • The rules are too restrictive: Because of the size and generalization of the rules such as "holes in walls" or "materials that are easy on the eyes" it is way too difficult to make a base that doesn't break any rules without being as basic as possible. This hinders creativity and makes every base on the server the same. The same base means the same repetitive gameplay.

Gameplay Issues

  • Items are unbalanced: Yeah, we all know this is a major issue but it's actually the biggest issue that gun-play has. Items like remote fading door bombs and perm weapons are way too strong while other items such as lockpicks and grenades are completely left in the trash. Most base metas have always been revolved around the latest gun that trashes everyone and how to abuse it. While this will take a very long time to fully fix we are going to start hitting it off now.
  • Party sizes are too large: When half of the server is in one base it makes a huge amount of issues for everyone. The base becomes nearly impossible to raid, there are less bases around the map, regular players are completely trashed by groups of 8-9 attackers where skill is then completely taken out the window. (Imagine in siege if you were 1 of 2 attackers attacking a bombsite with 20 defenders)

Our Goals:

  1. Create more skill & roleplay based gameplay.
  2. Make a more accessible and creative basing system.
  3. Shorten basing rules by at least 50%.
  4. Allow for more bases across the map.

IMPORTANT:

THESE WILL BE THE NEW BASING RULES STARTING JULY 14TH. UNTIL THEN ALL CURRENT BASING RULES WILL STILL BE ENFORCED.

Below is what will be the new rules for basing. These rules are subject to change over the course of the week.

General Rules:

  • Players/parties may only own one building and must own every door in that building.
    • In a situation where more than one person owns the doors of a building, whoever owns the "front-doors" gains ownership.
  • KOS signs must be clearly noticeable. (Ex: no tiny letters, hard to read text, etc.)
    • You may not KOS people who are on public property (sidewalk, street, sewer system passageways, etc.)
    • Apartments/hotels may only have one player/party per suite. Hotel managers may own entire hotels to sell suites to their customers.
      • Having a hotel manager in your party/base does not exempt players/parties from this rule.

Raidable Base requirements:

  • All shooting holes/cracks must be at least plate075x075 tall & wide. (models/hunter/plates/plate075x075.mdl)
    • Defenders must be visible from said windows.
  • No non-collided/one-way/glowing/flickering/transparent/blacked-out materials or props.
  • Bases may not force/restrict players from Jumping/Crouching/Walking/Running.
    • Traps must allow at least 2 players to cross.
  • There must be enough space for two players to fit side by side and back to back in every part of the base that the builder has control of.
  • No zig-zag bases.
  • No fence props.
  • You may not use world doors (excluding garage doors) as defenses.
    • Ex: Locking world doors open, placing props to influence the direction the doors open/close.
  • Player props for bases cannot extend above/to the sidewalk.
  • You may not store raidables in an area that is one by one or requires that you crouch/jump to obtain access to.

Fading Prop Rules:

  • You may only have 4 fading props.
  • No shooting through fading doors.
  • Must be a solid prop that disappears entirely when open.
  • Players may not have fake/hidden keypads/buttons. Keypads/buttons must be placed next to the fading door they open.
  • Players can have one keypad/button to open an entrance fading door and one on the opposite side to get out. Minimum 5 seconds opening time and cannot have a delay.
  • No fading doors directly in front/behind/inside world doors.

Major rules being removed:

  1. No more double stacked fading doors (REVERTED)
    1. Reason: This isn't fully set in stone for our system but this is to allow the use of certain tools again such as lockpicks & icarus shotguns while also nerfing items such as the battering ram (which will be talked about below). Though this change may not stay we will see in the future if we will add it back.
    2. Each stack of the double stacked fading door counts as a fading prop (Max 4 fading props per base.)
  2. No more shooting windows (REVERTED)
    1. Reason: I understand this may shake some feathers but we've come to find how many issues these actually cause.
      1. Shooting windows ruin gun-play: Imagine having a spammable magic forcefield that blocks bullets. There is no risk to defenders taking any duels in their base.
      2. Shooting windows ruin Rp: If we look at what darkrp is and the idea of cops vs robbers, raiding a drug making warehouse that has magic transparent forcefields blocking pd bullets has no place.
    2. Each shooting window counts as a fading prop (Max 4 fading props per base.)
  3. No more One-way props
    1. This is just an exploit of materials and such as above have only caused issues and magical one-way forcefields give way too much of an advantage to the point players were getting in trouble. If players want to know what is around the corner of their base, cameras are the perfect tool to add risk and small advantages to fights.

Major rules being added:

  1. We are allowing maze bases (not zig-zags).
    1. Having fake halls leading to nowhere is creative and something we don't have an issue with. That does not mean you can create a zig-zag base and that rule will still be enforced
  2. We are allowing height advantage/Holes in walls.
    1. As long as where you are shooting from shows both shoulders and your head it will be allowed.
  3. We are allowing vertical fading doors.
    1. This is subject to what is stated above.
  4. We are allowing trap bases.
    1. Now there are VERY IMPORTANT parts of this you guys need to understand. Traps MUST HAVE a way to escape the trap following normal basing rules AND if a trap is in front of the door there still needs to be a way to access the door without forcing players to jump or use a grapple-hook.

Fading Props:

Instead of having 3 FADING DOORS we will be allowing 4 FADED PROPS. What this means is that if you wish to add a fading trap to your base the risk is you can only have 3 fading doors in turn. This will allow you guys to choose what you want to do with your fading props and how you personally want to create your base.

Party Sizes:

We are working on making a brand new party system for the server that will be making parties more squad-based. Parties will be a max size of 4-5 players which will allow us to spread out the players across the map and instead of having an impenetrable base we will have multiple strong, but not impossible bases. This will make it so you guys will have to make decisions on who is best for defending your base and cannot rely on a swarm of 14 players.

Item Changes:

Though not being added super soon we are going to be hitting items with some buffs and nerfs along with plans for more universal utility items for all players. This will allow us to add more depth to base raids and make it so that no raid is the same.

Quick fixes:

  1. Remote Fading door bombs range will be severely reduced
  2. Lockpick will be able to lockpick doors in 5 seconds.
  3. Battering ram is having its cooldown increased to 8-10 seconds.
  4. Pulse Rifles push will not be as strong.

Incoming Items:

  1. Flashbangs
  2. Riot Shields
  3. Beartraps/Tripwires

Additional Comments:

I understand these changes are going to affect every single person on this server and all previous players coming back. We hope that these initial changes will allow us to carve a path to a better system for everyone. With that though this is a discussion and I do want input from everyone on changes they'd like to see. Along with this the suggestions tab will be re-opened with these new rules being added also.

 

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Finally holy shit, no more mega basing!!!! 

25 minutes ago, Flustered Pigeon said:

BASING CHANGES

=

25 minutes ago, Flustered Pigeon said:

IMPORTANT: !!!!

 

25 minutes ago, Flustered Pigeon said:

Additional Comments: Yeah, I like to fuck with you guys haha 😎

 

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Very glad i got to work on something like this, I do hope this can bring good things for ret.

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I'm looking forward to these changes, and I'm glad I got to help work on them. As much as it may piss off some players, I think this will make defending and raiding a far more fun experience than it has ever been before.

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I love everything with this. Will cause more variety and change, and will make things less stale. Awesome stuff.

 

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hell ya trap bases, who needs to defend when you can just drop the person into a firing squad 

just one door then a trap then a second door in front of that so they cant grapple out so they have to push though you ez defend 

Edited by Prawn
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For future reference; any shitposts or off-topic posts will be hidden and warning points will be given. Keep this on-topic.

Also, if you have any concerns or thoughts about these changes, do not hesitate to voice them, they will be read and taken seriously. Don't wait until later to complain about the changes when you have an opportunity now to state your opinions/thoughts on them before they are fully implemented.

 

 

I personally think these changes will bring only good things to the server in the long-run whether they will be seen as bad or not as of right now. Good job to everyone who worked on them.

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Finally something to post on.

 

Some of the changes I REALLY like as a player and as a staff member for example

height advantage change: I enjoy not having people to edit their base for a ramp that needs to be changed and would ruin the whole base when it dose the effect any gun-play except for having to move the crosshairs slightly downward/upward

trap bases/maze bases: Though may be hard to make and do without running into prop limit or lack of areas that could have a base like that a change like this would make basing different and have more risk than running into a place fading door bombing and continuing.

Party size changes: Finally even though I haven’t based in a while because of the situations of basing before, I used to see parties of half the server and since they know that the party is large other people would defend people would AFK expecting other people to defend for them, now with a party size limit this should hopefully stop because now there should be more bases and less people afking.

There’s other things I like but I would just be repeating what was already in the main post.

however there is one thing I dislike and I will explain why.

shooting windows:

yeah I understand about how it’s not how dark RP should be with “force fields” that block bullets but I mean technically that’s what a fading door is for as an entrance. It’s a forcefield that can block bullets and people but if you can only survive a gun fight with shooting windows you control when you can shoot through it or not seems kind of like a crutch.

final comments about the whole this is that I’m excited to see how everything will change and turn out when everything is set and we start enforcing it... also I really like flashbangs, riot shields (weren’t they broke and removed from the PD vendor?), and actual traps because who remembers thoes spiderwebs back in halloween of 2018? Because they were never used and I think removed a day or so into the event but now they should be good traps and be useful.

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While I myself have not been active, I am really liking these changes to the basing rules. I feel like it should make raiding bases a bit more refreshing and fair, albeit the height-advantage change.

Lower party sizes mean more bases and higher chances of successfully raiding bases.

There are new ideas that can be implemented into bases now due to the allowance of height-advantage, traps and mazes. 

Furthermore, no longer being able to double stack fading doors means that people can infiltrate a base without making too much noise. This would for sure be an issue for people who tab out and listen for keypad crackers or fading door bombs.

I personally feel that significant changes that occur periodically are quite good as they lessen the monotony that DarkRP can suffer from.

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pog fucking champ

I know it couldn't have been easy to pinpoint these issues and find a way to fix them without causing some players to be upset, but I think you've all done a great job. There's been a lot of issues with raiding that were never really addressed surprisingly, considering basing makes up a lot of the gameplay on here. I'm hoping these changes will bring about a more refined and interactive sense of raiding for both old and new players. Really looking forward to seeing how this will play out. 

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Well done to the team involved for sitting down and working their butts off to improve basing in Retribution,

To bring along such changes is definitely going to shift the meta of bases and we're gonna see something new arise. The changes scare me admittedly but who doesn't have a bit of a fear of change, I've been on and off the server and since coming back, I had to learn a new rule set and my thinking shifted to the new rules and it's gonna be hard to adjust right away again but it is possible and I encourage everyone else to also go into this with a clear mind and not to toss these rules to the gutter immediately, with anything new in gaming it needs to be play tested and I suggest thinking of this as a opportunity to play test and help make Retribution a fun experience for all

 

3 hours ago, Flustered Pigeon said:

Raidable Base requirements:

  • You may not use world doors (excluding garage doors) as defenses.
    • Ex: Locking world doors open, placing props to influence the direction the doors open/close.

There is 1 rule that I still think needs to be changed is the garage door exception for base defenses. I see the same build coming up that tunnels players through the double garage door warehouse that's down the road from gun shop. Unless this build has been restricted in a way that I am unaware of, i see this being the most viable base to build in with the new changes as it gives garage door protections with only two ways to bust them open, lock picks and breach charges. along with the most protection for prop usage ratio. I also do not understand why the exception would be garage doors either as they just produce a meta of garage door bases being the strongest options and whoever snags them first should have the best defenses. (I call this the Industrial basing meta)

3 hours ago, Flustered Pigeon said:

Fading Prop Rules:

  • No shooting through fading props.

I just wanted a bit of cognizance on this, for a setup example is having a shooting window that is behind a fading door and as the fading door is opened, you open fire from the shooting window, I imagine that this is an exception and is allowed to still happen.

I know this should seem pretty clear cut cause I can't imagine that this is part of the exception unless i'm wrong and this is now considered illegal. love to hear some feedback / if this is just a listed as a formality for Fading door windows.

 

Nonetheless, Thank you @Shogun4122 @Byte @DaveThe2nd @Goobermensch @Flustered Pigeon for making a new and revised set of basing rules and I look forward to seeing how this plays out with the community along with shifting the basing meta and the weapon meta.

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logged in this time

Plasma rifle White enigma value BYE BYE!

traps? maze bases? 

im boutta fuck shit up

i’m actively playing again

Edited by binoo
no longer wants white enigma and i copped an icarus shotgun lightwork

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Just now, binoo said:

logged in this time

Plasma rifle White enigma value BYE BYE!

traps? maze bases? 

im boutta fuck shit up

i’m actively playing again

That moment when we both have the most printers and flex and do nothing but now theres only parties of 4 so we can bunch of raiders coming through X_X

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I like what I'm seeing some fair mechanics that help the raiders and could give them a fighting chance for new players. also no more afk party members

Edited by Galaxy
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this is a cool change, shooting windows I can perfectly understand, but it's sad to see them go.

i didn't rlly like the new rules at first, but now that I over-read it, i'm liking it more

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I like all the changes that are going to be made. No more shooting windows spooked me a little because that's apart of dark rp but I understand why it's being removed. I'm curious how well these changes will be and I'm excited to give it a try. Good job to those who had these great ideas for the new rules. 

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I'm pretty sure that this going to make most base designs that people have made useless but since we can do maze bases and beartraps and tripwires are coming to the server base will be made slightly harder to get through

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M8 this is epic finally some spice cant wait to make trap bases OwO

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14 hours ago, Flustered Pigeon said:

Party Sizes:

We are working on making a brand new party system for the server that will be making parties more squad-based. Parties will be a max size of 4-5 players which will allow us to spread out the players across the map and instead of having an impenetrable base we will have multiple strong, but not impossible bases. This will make it so you guys will have to make decisions on who is best for defending your base and cannot rely on a swarm of 14 players.

 

14 hours ago, Flustered Pigeon said:

No more shooting windows

  1. Reason: I understand this may shake some feathers but we've come to find how many issues these actually cause.
    1. Shooting windows ruin gun-play: Imagine having a spammable magic forcefield that blocks bullets. There is no risk to defenders taking any duels in their base.
    2. Shooting windows ruin Rp: If we look at what darkrp is and the idea of cops vs robbers, raiding a drug making warehouse that has magic transparent forcefields blocking pd bullets has no place.

 

14 hours ago, Flustered Pigeon said:

We are allowing trap bases.

  1. Now there are VERY IMPORTANT parts of this you guys need to understand. Traps MUST HAVE a way to escape the trap following normal basing rules AND if a trap is in front of the door there still needs to be a way to access the door without forcing players to jump or use a grapple-hook.

Holy shit.

Good job to everyone who helped make these. Strategy might actually be a thing now

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So pretty much there are no more dupes left, which means every player is coming back to build them. I am glad to see this because, now people won't have to spam health and armor drugs to raid a big party. 🙂 Good Work

Only thing that kinda got me a little worried was the no more shooting windows, I know you said the rules are too long, but maybe finding an extensive rule revolving around only shooting windows could be a solution, and shooting windows like Crusty said is a huge part of rp on ret. So we will have to wait and see how this plays out I guess.

Edited by VAPE NAYSH YALL
Emotions
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i feel like this will hurt newer players more than help them due to the fact that they can’t hide behind fading doors at all so the good players will just walk in with their stimpack and one blast them with a good gun. Plus new players won’t be good at building and using traps also weakening their base while good players can build big, cool, and strong bases better and easier that easily fend off new players.  New players won’t be able to raid at all , the only thing that helps is group restrictions.

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35 minutes ago, jakebooth1900 said:

i feel like this will hurt newer players more than help them due to the fact that they can’t hide behind fading doors at all so the good players will just walk in with their stimpack and one blast them with a good gun. Plus new players won’t be good at building and using traps also weakening their base while good players can build big, cool, and strong bases better and easier that easily fend off new players.  New players won’t be able to raid at all , the only thing that helps is group restrictions.

Not quite, because in the raiding aspect new players will benefit much more, and when it comes to building bases they will be in a better position than now. Also when you talked about building bases, these new rules make the bases easier to build if anything, the old rules bases could be so complex and take hours. 

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